Hard-right Republicans say they hate government, but they sure love the power

CNN – Opinion:

Hard-right Republicans say they hate government, but they sure love the power

Opinion by Nicole Hemmer – October 31, 2023

Editor’s note: Nicole Hemmer is an associate professor of history and director of the Carolyn T. and Robert M. Rogers Center for the Study of the Presidency at Vanderbilt University. She is the author of “Partisans: The Conservative Revolutionaries Who Remade American Politics in the 1990s” and co-hosts the podcasts “Past Present” and “This Day in Esoteric Political History.”

The remarkable spectacle in the House of Representatives, where Republicans repeatedly failed for three weeks to fill the speaker’s seat they vacated in early October, has come to an end. The election of Rep. Mike Johnson of Louisiana to the seat, once the most coveted position in the House, has temporarily put the governing body back in session amid urgent foreign policy crises and a looming government shutdown.

It has been more than 150 years since the speakership sat vacant for so long. And this latest chaos only reinforces our current moment as a time when lengthy vacancies have become a regular feature of the federal government. The 422-day vacancy on the Supreme Court following Antonin Scalia’s death in 2016 was the longest since the court was set at nine members in 1869. The Trump administration was so rife with vacancies that record numbers of agencies had acting heads, which led The Washington Post to describe the executive branch as a “government full of temps.”

In each case, Republicans orchestrated these vacancies. But this government in absentia is not just a sign of the party’s dysfunction. While these vacancies emerged for different reasons, the driving force behind them all is a party that has radicalized to the point that it has created a crisis in democracy with catastrophic consequences for the entire country.

It is tempting to see these vacancies through the feature-not-a-bug lens of the Republican Party’s antigovernment politics. If a party doesn’t care about governing, why would it care that the government isn’t functioning? And certainly some on the right have made arguments to that effect. But that misses the much more insidious logic behind these vacancies: Many of today’s Republicans love government, because government is a form of power. You can’t ban reproductive and transition health care without government. You can’t ban books and drag shows without it. You can’t militarize a border or pardon your political allies without state power.

In many ways, the Republicans in the conference who are less radical are the ones more wary of how their colleagues deploy state power. But they have little power. They may have thwarted the nomination of Rep. Jim Jordan, the hard-right Trump ally who chairs the House Judiciary Committee, as speaker — but they fell in line behind Johnson, a far-right election denier. Right now, the party’s radicals run the conference, and they have found real power in the vacancy strategy.

The last time the speakership was vacant this long was in 1859, on the eve of the Civil War. The nation and its parties were riven by sectional divides over slavery that led politicians to contort the federal government to satisfy proponents of slavery. For eight years in the 1830s and 1840s, pro-slavery forces banned any discussion of antislavery petitions with the infamous gag rule. Conflict over slavery destroyed one political party (the Whigs) and gave birth to a new one (the Republicans). And in Congress, it ground all work to a halt in the House for two months as pro- and anti-slavery forces clashed over the speakership. Finally, a compromise candidate emerged, William Pennington of New Jersey, a freshly elected member who would serve just one term in office. And while the speakership crisis resolved, politics ultimately failed. War broke out a year after Pennington’s swearing-in.

We don’t need to draw the parallels too finely. The divisions in the US today are markedly different than those created by slavery. But the political failings that characterized the years leading up to the Civil War suggest we should pay attention when political institutions and procedures begin to systematically fail. Which is why we should spend some time thinking more seriously about these lengthy vacancies.

The first and most important thing to understand: The Republican Party has been responsible for nearly all these vacancies, at a time when a number of its members have also been responsible for one of the most serious incidents of political violence since the Civil War, the insurrection at the Capitol on January 6, 2021. (There have been deadlier domestic terror attacks, consequential assassinations and widespread state violence against persecuted groups, but the coordinated effort to overturn a presidential election, aided by the leaders of a major party, stands out even among these.)

The motivations have varied. Scalia’s seat remained vacant so Republicans could seize the power to fill it, just as lower courts have had lengthy vacancies to deny Democrats the right to fill those seats. The Trump administration vacancies were devised to give Trump more power over agencies and their leadership, whereas the speaker’s vacancy resulted from intraparty factionalism.

Yet these seemingly disparate motivations spring from a single source: an increasingly radicalized, illiberal Republican Party. In the case of the speakership vacancy, that dynamic annoyed Republican members but did not shake their commitment to antidemocratic politics. After all, the new speaker not only voted to overturn the 2020 election but was an enthusiastic participant in the illegal effort to prevent Joe Biden from taking office.

Scalia’s seat sat empty so Republicans could radicalize the court (mission accomplished). Trump skipped confirmation of Cabinet officials so he could wield more power over them (mission accomplished). A small band of Republicans vacated the speakership in hopes they could install a more right-wing speaker (mission very much accomplished). When government gets in the way of those larger goals, then it must be emptied, contorted or violently rejected, but the goal remains not the destruction of government, but the control of it. Which is why these vacancies — and their resolution — remain one of the most important signs we have of democratic decline in the United States.

By vacating the speakership and elevating Johnson to the highest position in the House, Republican radicals have confirmed the value of this vacancy strategy. And while Johnson may enjoy a longer run than his predecessor, the right has learned that vacancies fit perfectly with its power-grab politics. With an election just a year away — and the memory of a violent attempt at seizing power still fresh in mind — their commitment to this approach portends even more chaos ahead.

Here’s Exactly How Much House Republicans’ Israel Bill Would Cost

The New Republic

Here’s Exactly How Much House Republicans’ Israel Bill Would Cost

Ellie Quinlan Houghtaling – November 1, 2023

The House GOP’s quest to trade $14.3 billion in IRS cuts for $14.3 billion in emergency aid to Israel has an updated price tag, and surprise, surprise: It’s much steeper than it anticipated.

Instead of decreasing the deficit, the multibillion-dollar slash to the IRS proposed by newly minted House Speaker Mike Johnson would actually cost the government more than $26 billion in lost revenue by 2033, according to a Congressional Budget Office report issued Wednesday. The result would add nearly $12.5 billion to the national deficit over the next 10 years, the CBO predicted.

Some officials estimate that the true number could be even higher.

IRS Commissioner Daniel Werfel believes the damages may be more to the tune of $90 billion in lost revenue over the next decade and that the cuts would reduce the government’s ability to audit large corporations and the wealthy, reported The Washington Post.

“All of those funds go to increased scrutiny on tax evasion going on at the highest wealth, and that is millionaires and billionaires and large corporations and large complex corporations,” Werfel told the Post. “When you reduce those audits, you reduce the amount of money that we can collect and return to the Treasury for other priorities.”

Ultimately, Republicans’ plan to “offset” funding for Israel with cuts to the IRS would backfire quite badly.

At stake is an already-approved $80 billion expansion to the IRS that is projected to cut the deficit by more than $100 billion by way of improved tax collections, operations support, free filing for taxpayers, an office of tax policy, and tax court. The Congressional Budget Office has repeatedly warned that cutting IRS funding will encourage tax cheating and increase the deficit, though that didn’t stop Johnson from attempting to chip some money off the arrangement.

“If you put this to the American people, and they weigh the two needs, I think they are going to say standing with Israel and protecting the innocent is in our national interest, and a more immediate need than IRS agents,” Johnson told Fox News on Tuesday.

US State and Defense secretaries to try to persuade Congress to approve joint aid to Ukraine and Israel

Ukrayinska Pravda

US State and Defense secretaries to try to persuade Congress to approve joint aid to Ukraine and Israel

Ukrainska Pravda – October 31, 2023

US State Secretary Antony Blinken and US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin will try to convince US congressmen on Tuesday that it is in the country’s interest to approve President Biden’s US$106 billion request to support Ukraine, Israel and US border security. Blinken and Austin will testify before the US Senate Committee on Appropriations regarding Biden’s request.

SourceReuters, reported by European Pravda

Details: Arguing that the support of American partners is vital to national security, Biden asked Congress to approve further assistance to Ukraine worth US$61.4 billion.

Biden also asked for US$14.3 billion for Israel, US$9 billion for humanitarian aid – including for Israel and Gaza – US$13.6 billion for US border security, US$4 billion for military assistance, and government funding to counter China’s regional efforts in Asia.

The way forward for Biden’s funding plan looks uncertain. Democrats and many Republicans in the Democratic-majority Senate support Biden’s strategy of combining aid to Ukraine with support for Israel.

But the Republicans who lead the House of Representatives are opposed to combining the two issues. Opinion polls show that public support for aid to Ukraine is decreasing, and many Republicans, especially those who are most supportive of former President Donald Trump, are opposed to it.

Background:

  • On Monday, Republicans introduced a bill to provide US$14.3 billion in aid to Israel separately from Ukraine.
  • Republican Mike Johnson, the newly elected Speaker of the House of Representatives, said last week that he wanted aid to Israel and Ukraine to be considered separately in the House. He said that the aid provided to Kyiv should be considered more attentively.

‘Morning Joe’ Torches ‘Gross’ Mike Johnson for Picking Fight With Biden Over Israel Funding (Video)

The Wrap

‘Morning Joe’ Torches ‘Gross’ Mike Johnson for Picking Fight With Biden Over Israel Funding (Video)

Natalie Korach – October 31, 2023

MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” slammed new Speaker of the House Mike Johnson for “setting up a clash over how to approve the aid to Israel,” as his first move in the role.

Co-host Mika Brzezinski summarized Johnson’s latest move as House Speaker as taking “the bipartisan goodwill of providing aid for Israel and launching a fight with President Biden over his signature achievement while setting up a collision course with the Senate.”

The aid package for Israel released by House Republicans yesterday includes $14.3 billion in emergency funding, however, there’s a catch.

“The bill rescinds that same amount of IRS funding from the Inflation Reduction Act,” said Brzezinski. “The act is the major climate, health care, and tax law that President Biden signed into law last year.”

Brzezinski noted that the bill also excludes aid for Ukraine, “despite President Biden’s request for aid to both.”

“If the bill passes the Republican-controlled House, the IRS provisions are all but guaranteed to be rejected by the Democratic-led Senate and the White House,” continued Brzezinski. “Setting up a clash over how to approve the aid to Israel and of course, leaving Ukraine out.”

“Well, of course leaving Ukraine out,” co-host Joe Scarborough chimed in. “I mean, it’s a great start.”

“Remarkable how tone-deaf my former party is. They are actually putting billionaires between the protection of Israel and the United States Congress,” said Scarborough.

The “Morning Joe” co-host claimed “They’re taking the money that was passed and they’re gutting the IRS’s ability to go after billionaire tax cheats. And they think that’s the solution.”

“We got this Mike Johnson guy who was part of a Congress that spent more money and drove us deeper into debt over a four-year period than any Congress in the history of the United States of America,” said Scarborough.

“And now suddenly he won’t even help Jews protect themselves,” he continued. “It is so gross and making it even grosser, he says, here’s what we’re gonna do: We will protect the Jews if you protect the billionaires.”

Scarborough said he’s “never truly heard of a dumber plan to start a speakership than to put Jews’ lives in danger so you can protect billionaire tax cheats.”

“It’s just so grotesque,” Scarborough said.

New tool reveals swaths of American coastline are expected to be underwater by 2050: ‘Time is slipping away’

The Cool Down

New tool reveals swaths of American coastline are expected to be underwater by 2050: ‘Time is slipping away’

Brittany Davies – October 31, 2023

If you ask Climate Central — which has a coastal risk screening tool that shows an area’s risk for rising sea levels and flooding over the coming decades — Texas’s coastline is in trouble.

The new map-based tool compiles research into viewable projections for water levels, land elevation, and other factors in localized areas across the U.S. to assess their potential risk.

The predictive technology indicates that, under some scenarios, many of Texas’s coastal areas, such as much of Galveston Island, Beaumont, and the barrier islands, will be underwater during floods by 2050.

What’s happening?

Coastal areas face threats from rising sea levels caused by melting ice caps and warming oceans, as well as flooding from storms intensified by changing temperatures. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) estimates more than 128 million people live in coastal communities, many of which will be severely impacted by the effects of higher tides and dangerous storms.

CNN reports that coastal flooding could cost the global economy $14.2 trillion in damages, not including loss of life and well-being, by the end of the century. The loss of land due to sea level rise is also detrimental to the entire ecosystem, disrupting important wetlands and freshwater supplies.

Why is this concerning?

The coastal risk screening tool provides startling insight into how many areas will likely be affected by rising tides and floods, especially if nothing is done to mitigate Earth’s rapidly rising temperatures. As 2050 quickly approaches, time is slipping away to prepare and protect communities and ecosystems from the rising waters.

Planning, approving, and implementing new infrastructure and other major projects to keep communities safe can take years to complete. Because the wheels of bureaucracy turn slowly, cities need to start planning now before they find themselves in too deep.

What’s being done to reduce the risk?

Many of the most vulnerable regions are densely populated and people are already dealing with personal and economic damages from intensified flooding. While some may be able to move or make changes to their homes and communities to prepare for rising waters, not everyone has the means or desire to make these changes.

Several actions may be taken by individuals, organizations, municipalities, and the government to reduce the impacts of coastal flooding. The first step is understanding where the vulnerabilities are, indicates Peter Girard of Climate Central. Protecting existing wetlands and utilizing nature-based solutions such as living shorelines or sand dunes can lessen the impacts of flooding, storm surges, and erosion.

Community developers are encouraged to consider those most vulnerable when implementing coastal resiliency strategies such as shifting populations or building flood walls. Individuals living in flood zones should learn about the risks and obtain insurance protection if available.

Join our free newsletter for cool news and cool tips that make it easy to help yourself while helping the planet.

How a Lucrative Surgery Took Off Online and Disfigured Patients

The New York Times

How a Lucrative Surgery Took Off Online and Disfigured Patients

Sarah Kliff and Katie Thomas – October 30, 2023

A binder holds up Sandy Aken’s stomach closer to her body at her mother’s home in Anaheim, Calif., on Sunday, Oct. 22, 2023. (Gabriella Angotti-Jones/The New York Times)
A binder holds up Sandy Aken’s stomach closer to her body at her mother’s home in Anaheim, Calif., on Sunday, Oct. 22, 2023. (Gabriella Angotti-Jones/The New York Times)

The bulge on the side of Peggy Hudson’s belly was the size of a cantaloupe. And it was growing.

“I was afraid it would burst,” said Hudson, 74, a retired airport baggage screener in Ocala, Florida.

The painful protrusion was the result of a surgery gone wrong, according to medical records from two doctors she later saw. Using a four-armed robot, a surgeon in 2021 had tried to repair a small hole in the wall of her abdomen, known as a hernia. Rather than closing the hole, the procedure left Hudson with what is called a “Mickey Mouse hernia,” in which intestines spill out on both sides of the torso like the cartoon character’s ears.

One of the doctors she saw later, a leading hernia expert at the Cleveland Clinic, doubted that Hudson had even needed the surgery. The operation, known as a component separation, is recommended only for large or complex hernias that are tough to close. Hudson’s original tear, which was about 2 inches, could have been patched with stitches and mesh, the surgeon believed.

Component separation is a technically difficult and risky procedure. Yet more and more surgeons have embraced it since 2006, when the approach — which had long been used in plastic surgery — was adapted for hernias. Over the next 15 years, the number of times that doctors billed Medicare for a hernia component separation increased more than tenfold, to around 8,000 per year. And that figure is a fraction of the actual number, researchers said, because most hernia patients are too young to be covered by Medicare.

In skilled hands, component separations can successfully close large hernias and alleviate pain. But many surgeons, including some who taught themselves the operation by watching videos on social media, are endangering patients by trying these operations when they aren’t warranted, a New York Times investigation found.

Dr. Michael Rosen, the Cleveland Clinic surgeon who later repaired Hudson’s hernias, helped develop and popularize the component separation technique, traveling the country to teach other doctors. He now counts that work among his biggest regrets because it encouraged surgeons to try the procedure when it wasn’t appropriate. Half of his operations these days, he said, are attempts to fix those doctors’ mistakes.

“It’s unbelievable,” Rosen said. “I’m watching reasonably healthy people with a routine problem get a complicated procedure that turns it into a devastating problem.”

Hudson’s original surgeon, Dr. Edwin Menor, said he learned to perform robotic component separation a few years ago. He said he initially found the procedure challenging and that some of his operations had been “not perfect.”

Menor said that he now performs component separations a few times a week and that, with additional experience, “you improve eventually.” He said he had a roughly 95% success rate. In Hudson’s case, he said, the use of component separation was warranted based on the complexity of her hernia and her history of abdominal surgeries.

Component separation must be practiced dozens of times to master it, experts said. But 1 out of 4 surgeons said they taught themselves how to perform the operation by watching Facebook and YouTube videos, according to a recent survey — part of a broader pattern of surgeons of all stripes learning new techniques on social media with minimal professional oversight.

Other hernia surgeons, including Menor, learned component separation at events sponsored by medical device companies. Intuitive, for example, makes a $1.4 million robot known as the da Vinci that is sometimes used for component separations. Intuitive has paid for hundreds of hernia surgeons to attend short courses to learn how to use the machine for the procedure. The company makes money not only from selling the machines but also by charging some hospitals every time they use the robot.

Many surgeons — even some paid by device companies to teach the technique — haven’t learned how to properly carry out component separation with the da Vinci, the Times found. In fact, at times they are teaching one another the wrong techniques.

The robot comes with a built-in camera that makes it easy for doctors to record high-resolution videos of their surgeries. The videos are often shared online, including in a Facebook group of about 13,000 hernia surgeons. Some videos capture surgeons using shoddy practices and making appalling mistakes, surgeons said.

One instructional video, paid for by another major medical device company, showed a surgeon slicing through the wrong part of the muscle with the da Vinci. Experts said the result could have been devastating, turning the abdominal muscles into what one described as “dead meat.”

Peper Long, a spokesperson for Intuitive, said the company hired “experienced surgeons” to lead its training courses. “The rise in robotic-assisted hernia procedures reflects the clinical benefits that the technology can offer,” she said.

In interviews with the Times, more than a dozen hernia surgeons pointed to another reason for the surging use of component separations: They earn doctors and hospitals more money. Medicare pays at least $2,450 for a component separation, compared with $345 for a simpler hernia repair. Private insurers, which cover a significant portion of hernia surgeries, typically pay two or three times what Medicare does.

Repeat Billings

Fixing the torn muscles of a hernia is like closing a suitcase: It’s usually not too difficult to bring the two sides together and zip it up. But a large hernia, like an overstuffed bag, doesn’t have enough slack to bring the muscles back together.

Around 2006, surgeons adapted a technique from plastic surgery, called component separation, to close large hernias. On each side of the torso, they carefully cut the muscle to create slack, resulting in something like an extra zipper in expandable luggage.

Other hernia surgeons were initially afraid to try it. They would have to make incisions that ran from the sternum down to the pelvic bone and would have to distinguish between three parallel planes of muscle, each just millimeters wide. And while making tiny cuts, they would have to carefully avoid bundles of nerves and blood vessels. Cut a bundle, and the muscle becomes useless.

Despite its difficulty, the procedure took off — and with it, the opportunity for doctors to make more money.

The federal government assigns a value to everything a doctor does, from an annual physical to a complex surgery, in order to determine how much Medicare should pay. These values — known as relative value units, or RVUs — are also used by private health plans, and therefore dictate most doctors’ earnings. Many hospitals require their doctors to ring up a minimum number of RVUs. Some doctors get bonuses if they exceed that goal or have their salaries docked if they fall short.

Component separation has a high value. A traditional hernia repair earns between 6 and 22 RVUs for the surgeon, which for Medicare patients translates to $200 to $750. Tacking on a component separation for both sides of the torso brings in an additional 34.5 RVUs., or about $1,200 more for the surgeon. (Medicare also pays the hospital for each procedure.)

When the RVU system began, in 1992, component separation was part of a billing category that consisted of plastic surgery procedures such as reconstructing a patient’s torso after a traumatic accident. Because the procedure demanded a high level of skill and took so much effort, it was given a high RVU.

But since 2006, its use for hernias has soared, Medicare data shows.

Part of the rise reflects the fact that some people with small hernias, who don’t need complicated surgery, are nonetheless getting component separations. A study by Dr. Dana Telem, a hernia surgeon at the University of Michigan, found that was happening in about one-third of cases.

Another factor is that some surgeons have been billing insurers up to four times for a single procedure. In 2017, the American College of Surgeons warned them to stop, saying they could bill twice, at most — once for each side of the torso.

Robots on Facebook

As hernia surgeons were dabbling in component separation, a larger shift in surgery was underway: using robots to operate.

Intuitive debuted its da Vinci robot in 2000, with the idea that more precise surgery would shorten recovery times. Surgeons could remotely control the robot’s tiny clamps and scissors, allowing them to carry out complex operations with small incisions.

The company marketed the robot to a variety of specialties, including cardiology and urology. It found notable success in gynecology but faltered in 2013, when an influential study reported that robotic surgery for hysterectomies was no better than a more standard technique.

Around that time, Intuitive made a big push with general surgeons, offering training events around the country where doctors could test out the da Vinci for surgeries like gallbladder removals and simple hernia repairs, one of the most common surgeries in the country.

By 2017, Intuitive brought in more than $3 billion in revenues on the da Vinci, and was trumpeting the largely untapped potential of the hernia market. “We believe hernia repair procedures represent a significant opportunity with the potential to drive growth in future periods,” the company said in its 2017 annual report.

The marketing was “masterful,” said Dr. Guy Voeller, a hernia surgeon in Tennessee and former president of the American Hernia Society. “They made it explode.”

Beyond traditional sales tactics, Intuitive also made inroads into the growing Facebook group, a lively forum where hernia surgeons discussed everything from troubleshooting tricky cases to complaining about their pay.

At first, the group’s members weren’t keen on the robot, questioning whether the flashy new tool was worth its steep price tag. “A lot of added expense with what perceived benefit to the patient?” one surgeon wrote on the Facebook group’s page in 2014.

Around that time, an Intuitive representative placed a phone call to Dr. Eugene Dickens, a general surgeon at a community hospital in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Dickens had grown up playing video games and was immediately comfortable at the da Vinci’s remote controls, which he used for dozens of gallbladder, appendix and simple hernia surgeries. Intuitive was paying him to be a consultant. (Since 2013 he has received about $1 million.)

Now the company wanted him to jump into the Facebook fray and win over the naysayers, he said.

“We are getting decimated by this little hernia group,” Dickens recalled the company representative saying. “Can you join and help defend us?”

He and other robot enthusiasts began to sing the da Vinci’s praises in the Facebook group, he said. (He said that Intuitive did not pay him for his Facebook posts.)

Over time, the group warmed to the robot, not just for simple hernia repairs but also for more complex operations like component separations. Surgeons began posting videos showing off the new procedure, drawing dozens of positive comments.

Surgeons used the da Vinci for more than 1.3 million hernia repairs between 2016 and 2022, Long said, or about 15% of the total procedures by the company’s robots. Only about 13,000 of those hernia repairs were component separations, she said.

Intrigued by the hype, Dickens taught himself component separation by watching online videos. His first operation went well, he recalled, but a later patient developed a serious complication, necessitating an additional surgery.

Then, at a dinner meeting in Houston, he presented a video of one of his own surgeries to a group of about 50 other doctors, Dickens recalled. A more experienced surgeon interrupted to say he was operating on the wrong part of the muscle. The rebuke felt like a “red flag,” he said, and he stopped doing the procedure, although he is still a proponent of the da Vinci for other operations.

An academic study in 2020 found that “unsafe recommendations often go uncontested” in the Facebook group and warned that “surgeons should be cautious” about using the page for clinical advice.

Dr. Brian Jacob, the hernia surgeon who founded the Facebook group, said that after the study was published, he made an effort to not let bad advice go unchallenged. He said that surgeons have described performing component separations on small hernias. When he sees those posts, he said, he typically comments to say, “That’s not how I would have done it.”

Trashing the Abdominal Wall

In June 2021, W.L. Gore & Associates, a medical device company that makes surgical mesh used in hernia repairs, posted a video tutorial on its website. It promised to be a step-by-step guide to component separation surgery.

A surgeon narrated as he cut the patient’s abdominal muscles, releasing tissue so he could close a hernia. But he was operating in the wrong place and likely created a new hernia, according to four surgeons who reviewed the video.

“It absolutely trashed the abdominal wall,” said Jeffrey Blatnik, who directs the Washington University Hernia Center. “It was so offensive to the point that we reached out to the company and told them, ‘You guys need to take this down.’”

Jessica Moran, a spokesperson for W.L. Gore, said that after surgeons flagged the error, the company removed the video; it had been online for 10 months. “We have investigated what happened here to avoid this happening again in the future,” Moran said.

Dr. Rodolfo Oviedo performed the faulty surgery. Moran said the company had paid him $4,400 for it.

Oviedo acknowledged that he had made mistakes but said he had improved. “At some point I was doing it wrong, and nobody’s perfect,” he said in an interview in June, when he was the director of robotic education at Houston Methodist, a major hospital in Texas. He said it was only at some point after the surgery that he learned of his potentially serious errors.

Four months later, Oviedo offered a new explanation. He said that he had learned of his mistake in real time and had repaired the damage while the patient was still on the operating table. He said the patient, with whom he followed up for 18 months, had not experienced complications. (Oviedo left Houston Methodist for another job in July.)

W.L. Gore’s video had plenty of company: A study of 50 highly viewed hernia repair videos on YouTube found that 84% did not follow all safety guidelines.

In addition to relying on online videos, surgeons also learn new techniques at training sessions paid for by device companies, which typically cover travel and a one- or two-day course. But the companies do little vetting of their instructors, experts said.

Earlier this year, Blatnik fixed a bad component separation surgery where the original surgeon had cut into the wrong muscle plane. The patient’s intestines were bulging out of her sides, another Mickey Mouse hernia.

Blatnik said he immediately recognized the name of the surgeon who had operated on the patient because he had seen that surgeon teach component separation at a course sponsored by a device company. The surgeon has received more than $130,000 in payments over the past decade from companies including Intuitive and Bard, which manufactures hernia mesh, the Times found.

Looking Pregnant

Academic research is only now starting to quantify the complication rate of component separations for hernias.

In 2019, researchers analyzed five studies of patients who underwent the procedure and found that only 4% developed another hernia. But a newer study from the Cleveland Clinic, which followed patients for two years to see if a new bulge had developed, found the number was 26%.

Seven years ago, Sandy Aken said, she had a hernia the size of her fist. A surgeon in Huntington Beach, California, performed a component separation. Three months later, her belly was still protruding, and she felt like her guts were spilling out. She saw another doctor.

“This patient has a significantly compromised abdominal wall with damaged muscle due to the history of component separation,” that doctor wrote in a summary of the visit. Another hernia surgeon told her he could not fix the bulge, she said.

Aken, 64, now looks nine months pregnant. She cannot bend over without pain, a limitation that forced her to leave her job as a caregiver.

In 2018, Dr. Willie Melvin performed a component separation with the da Vinci on Jennifer Gulledge, whose large hernia made her a good candidate for the operation. But he cut into the wrong part of the muscle, leaving new holes on each side of her body and too little slack to close her original hernia, another surgeon concluded after reviewing her case.

Less than a week later, he performed an emergency surgery to close the original hernia. But the side tears remained.

Melvin declined to discuss Gulledge’s case. He said he had a lot of experience with complex hernia cases that other surgeons have referred to him and that he and his partner performed about three component separation surgeries a month. Intuitive paid him more than $25,000 last year to demonstrate his technique to other surgeons and to check the work of doctors who are new to robotic surgery.

In February 2020, Dr. Ajita Prabhu, a Cleveland Clinic hernia surgeon who has studied the frequency of failed component separation, operated on Gulledge. Prabhu told her patient that she would try her best, but that the damage from the original surgery was probably irreparable.

She was right. Even with her abdominal muscles sewed back together, Gulledge lived with intense pain. Routine tasks were difficult: When she changed her granddaughter’s diaper, she had to remind the 2-year-old not to kick “grandma’s bad belly.”

In August, Gulledge drove 700 miles to Cleveland for a follow-up appointment. She spent four days on the road, sometimes stopping every 30 minutes because it hurt too much to remain behind the wheel.

When Prabhu examined her, she confirmed Gulledge’s fear: Another hernia had opened up.

My centenarian dad lived to be 101. Here are his lifestyle tips I’m following to live a long life, too.

Insider

My centenarian dad lived to be 101. Here are his lifestyle tips I’m following to live a long life, too.

Louisa Rogers – October 29, 2023

  • My centenarian father lived a very healthy life but recently died at 101.
  • His practices mirrored Blue Zone principles: eating in moderation, exercising, and reducing stress.
  • I hope to live as long as him, so I’ve incorporated these habits into my life to be healthy.

For as long as I knew him, my father, who died a year ago at 101, lived a very healthy, active life. He ran every morning until he was 70, kept his stress level to a minimum, and enjoyed close bonds with family and friends — three of the principles described by Dan Buettner in his book “The Blue Zones: Lessons for Living Longer From the People Who’ve Lived the Longest.”

Louisa Rogers and her father sitting next to each other and smiling. Louisa has dyed blue short hair, dark eyes, and wears a black cardigan, pink t-shirt, and wears a scarf with a snakeskin print knotted around her neck. Her dad has white hair brushed to the left side, dark eyes, and wears dark-rimmed glasses. He looks off to the viewer's left side and wears a blue polo shirt and tan open sweater.
The author with her father.Courtesy of Louisa Rogers

Because I also hope to live to become a centenarian, I’m following his example. I’ve incorporated many of the practices I saw him live out — and a few others — into my life.

Eat and drink in moderation

“Breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, and dinner like a pauper,” Daddy used to intone. He always ate his smallest meal in the early evening. At mealtimes, he followed another rule of Blue Zoners: Stop eating when you’re 80% full.

While I have a history of overeating, I’ve learned to eat healthily and moderately most of the time — I eat a 90% plant-based diet with occasional fish, and I indulge in junk food sparingly. I do tend to have my main meal in the evening, but it’s typically a simple one-pot dish.

As for alcohol, many centenarians do enjoy a glass of wine, but they don’t overdo it. My father, however, was a heavy drinker until the last five years of his life, when, after serious catheter surgery, his doctor ordered him to stop drinking. I have two glasses of wine at night, and I think of it as my guilty pleasure.

Exercise frequently

My father was a hiker, backpacker, and runner, starting in his college years. At 70, he switched from running outdoors to using an exercise bicycle and a treadmill.

I began running during college with my dad and slowly expanded into loving exercise of all kinds; I call myself an “adult-onset fitness lover.” Being physically active, especially outdoors, gives me great pleasure, whether I’m walking long-distance routes in different parts of the world (my husband, Barry, and I walked the 540-mile Camino de Santiago), riding my bike, or paddleboarding.

I also find ways to incorporate physical activity into my daily routine, like many centenarians, who often don’t exercise in the modern sense but incorporate movement into their daily lives. And unlike my dad, who lived in the suburbs, I live in walkable communities — I split my time between Mexico and California — so I rarely drive, and it’s easy to get a lot of walking in each day.

Reduce stress

While my father had a great deal of loss in his life — he outlived not only my mother and two later wives but also two of his five children — he was very resilient. He kept marrying, which was not always easy for me, but now I realize it helped him avoid loneliness, which a surgeon general advisory says is about as deadly as smoking.

As for me, a few years ago I told a friend, “I don’t do Christmas stress.” Gradually, that attitude has expanded into the rest of my life. It’s not always that simple, of course. Naturally, I sometimes experience stressful events, but I’ve learned to mitigate it through walking or other exercise, talking to a friend, journaling, and meditating.

Have a sense of purpose

Centenarians know why they want to get up in the morning. I never asked my dad what his purpose was, but he was very engaged in life. After 9/11, for example, he joined an interfaith group made up of Christians, Jews, and Muslims, and later went to the Middle East on a peace delegation. When he was 80, he volunteered to build houses in Honduras.

I love connecting with people, learning, and being creative. I write, cook, and paint. During the parts of the year when we’re living in Mexico, I also speak Spanish and spend a lot of time volunteering.

Maintain strong connections with family and friends

My dad lived in Pennsylvania. Though none of his children lived in the same state, we visited often and were in frequent contact by phone.

For 30 years, he met with a group of friends every month, and they all shared about their lives and reflected on current issues or a book they’d read.

I don’t live near my family members, either, but I’m in regular touch with them. And while I have friends in both communities where we live, I also regularly “prospect” for new ones because I’ve seen that close connections can unexpectedly end through moves, irreconcilable differences, or death.

Nurture a sense of spirituality

Unlike most centenarians, my dad did not have a strong faith. I’m not a traditional believer, either, but I act as though I am. Call it the placebo effect. I write notes to God and ask for help when I’m struggling, and somehow, it works.

There are no guarantees, of course. Plenty of fit people die young. Still, there’s no harm in improving my chances, especially since I enjoy these activities anyway and they add to my quality of life. What have I got to lose?

FDA tells consumers to stop using eye drops from major brands due to infection risk

USA Today

FDA tells consumers to stop using eye drops from major brands due to infection risk

Gabe Hauari, USA TODAY – October 30, 2023

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is advising consumers to stop using some over-the-counter eye drops due to a potential risk of infection that may lead to partial vision loss or blindness.

The agency issued an alert Friday flagging 26 eye care products from CVS Health, Leader (Cardinal Health), Rugby (Cardinal Health), Rite Aid, Target Up&Up and Velocity Pharma.

The FDA recommended the manufacturer of these products to recall all lots on Oct. 25 after investigators found unsanitary conditions in the manufacturing facility and positive bacterial test results from environmental sampling of “critical drug production areas” in the facility, the agency said.

CVS, Rite Aid and Target are removing the products from their store shelves and websites, according to the FDA, while products branded as Leader, Rugby and Velocity may still be available to purchase in stores and online. These products should not be purchased, the agency warned.

From COVID meds to abortion: Why conservatives are fighting the FDA’s power to regulate drugs

The FDA is recalling certain eye drop products due to a risk of infection to consumers.
The FDA is recalling certain eye drop products due to a risk of infection to consumers.
What should you do if you have used these products?

People who have signs or symptoms of an eye infection after using these products should talk to their health care provider or seek medical care immediately, the FDA says.

The FDA also recommends consumers properly discard these products.

There have been no reports of eye infection associated with these products as of Friday, but the FDA encourages health care professionals and patients to report adverse events or quality problems with any medicine to the agency’s MedWatch Adverse Event Reporting Program.

For a full list of the 26 eye care products the FDA flagged, click here.

This bacteria can kill young people: There’s a new way to prevent it.

Here’s every eye drop and gel being recalled from stores including Target, CVS, and Rite Aid after the FDA warned they could cause blindness

Insider

Here’s every eye drop and gel being recalled from stores including Target, CVS, and Rite Aid after the FDA warned they could cause blindness

Kim Schewitz – October 30, 2023

  • The FDA has warned consumers to avoid 26 eye drops and gels that could potentially cause blindness.
  • Retailers including CVS, Rite Aid, and Target are pulling the products from shelves.
  • The FDA said to seek medical care if you experience symptoms after using the products.

The FDA has warned consumers to immediately stop using and not buy 26 over-the-counter eye drops and gels that could potentially cause partial vision loss or blindness. Below is a list of all the products the FDA has told their manufacturer to recall.

Agency investigators found unsanitary conditions and bacteria where the products were made, according to a safety alert from the FDA published on Friday, and said they had the potential to cause infections that could result in blindness.

The FDA said on Friday that no adverse reactions had been flagged, but the products could pose “a potential heightened risk of harm” because drugs applied to the eyes bypass some of the body’s natural defenses.

The products were marketed under the brands: Target Up&Up, CVS Health, Rite Aid, Leader (Cardinal Health), Rugby (Cardinal Health), and Velocity Pharma.

Those who have signs or symptoms of an eye infection after using these products should speak to a healthcare provider or seek medical care immediately, the alert said.

Eye drops and gels recalled by the FDA

CVS Health:

  • Lubricant Eye Drops 15 ml (single pack)
  • Lubricant Eye Drops 15 ml (twin pack)
  • Lubricant Gel Drops 15 ml (single pack)
  • Lubricant Gel Drops 15 ml (twin pack)
  • Multi-Action Relief Drops 15 ml
  • Lubricating Gel drops 10 ml
  • Lubricant Eye Drops 10 ml (single pack)
  • Lubricant Eye Drops 10 ml (twin pack)
  • Mild Moderate Lubricating Eye Drops 15 ml (single pack)

Rugby (Cardinal Health):

  • Lubricating Tears Eye Drops 15 ml
  • Polyvinyl Alcohol 1.4% Lubricating Eye Drops 15 ml

Leader (Cardinal Health):

  • Dry Eye Relief 10 ml
  • Lubricant Eye Drops 15 ml (single pack)
  • Lubricant Eye Drops 15 ml (twin pack)
  • Dry Eye Relief 15 ml
  • Eye Irritation Relief 15 ml

Rite Aid:

  • Lubricant Eye Drops 15 ml (twin pack)
  • Lubricant Eye Drops 10 ml (twin pack)
  • Gentle Lubricant Gel Eye Drops 15 ml
  • Lubricant Gel Drops 15 ml
  • Lubricating Gel Drops 10 ml
  • Multi-Action Relief Drops 15 ml

Target:

  • Up&Up Dry Eye Relief Lubricant Eye Drops 30 ml
  • Up&Up Extreme Relief Dry Eye 15 ml (single pack)
  • Up&Up Extreme Relief Dry Eye 30 ml (twin pack)

Velocity Pharma:

  • Lubricant Eye Drop 10 ml (triple pack)
CVS, Rite Aid, and Target are pulling the drugs from shelves

CVS, Rite Aid, and Target are removing the products from their shelves and websites after the FDA recommended all batches be recalled on October 25, the alert said.

Products branded as Leader, Rugby, and Velocity may still be available in stores and online, the alert said, but they should not be purchased.

A spokeswoman for Rite Aid said that “due to safety concerns identified by the FDA, we are removing the applicable Rite Aid branded products from our store shelves.”

ACVS spokeswoman told Insider in an email: “We’ve immediately stopped the sale in-store and online of all products supplied by Velocity Pharma within the CVS Health Brand Eye Products portfolio,” and customers can return those products for a full refund.

In a statement, Cardinal Health said: “Immediately upon being notified, we placed all identified impacted eye drop products in our inventory on hold and contacted Velocity Pharma, the supplier of the impacted eye drop products.

“We are in the process of working with Velocity Pharma and FDA to initiate a recall of all impacted Rugby Laboratories and Cardinal Health Leader branded eye drop products to further safeguard public health and safety.”

Target and Velocity Pharma did not immediately respond to Insider’s request for comment.

In February, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and FDA warned against two other eye drop products, EzriCare Artificial Tears eye drops and Delsam Pharma’s Artificial Tears. The drugs were recalled over bacteria contamination, which was linked to four deaths and 14 cases of vision loss or eye removal.

Hamas built a massive tunnel network in Gaza. Here’s how Israeli ‘weasel’ forces will fight it

USA Today

Hamas built a massive tunnel network in Gaza. Here’s how Israeli ‘weasel’ forces will fight it

Rick Jervis, USA TODAY – October 30, 2023

As Israeli troops push deeper into Gaza in retaliation for the Oct. 7 Hamas attacks, the ground attack won’t look quite like the door-to-door skirmishes seen in Fallujah, Mosul and other past urban clashes.

Instead, it will happen largely out of sight and underground, deep in a warren of connecting tunnels that Hamas has been digging and lining with concrete for more than a decade. The battle to control and destroy this subterranean labyrinth, estimated at more than 300 miles, will be a key strategy for the Israeli military, according to military analysts and experts – and will make the incursion into Gaza unlike any past urban conflict.

For these “de-tunneling” operations, specialized units code-named Samur – Hebrew for “weasel” – expect to squeeze through the narrow passages and find rocket assembly lines, stores of small arms and mortars and, deeper still, Hamas’ leaders’ lodging and headquarters – much of it probably booby-trapped with homemade bombs. They may also be searching for some of the more than 200 hostages taken from Israel who may be hidden in those same tunnels.

“It’s going to be an undertaking like nothing the (Israeli military) has ever done,” said retired U.S. Army Lt. Gen. Mark Schwartz, who ran U.S. security coordination with both Israel and the Palestinian Authority from 2019 to 2021. “And frankly unlike anything we’ve ever done.”

A Palestinian man walks from the Egyptian side of the border in a repaired bombed smuggling tunnel linking the Gaza Strip to Egypt, in Rafah, in this file photo from 2012.
A Palestinian man walks from the Egyptian side of the border in a repaired bombed smuggling tunnel linking the Gaza Strip to Egypt, in Rafah, in this file photo from 2012.

After the Hamas attacks, which killed 1,400 people, Israel unleashed a bombing campaign that has killed more than 8,000 people, most of them civilians, according to the Hamas-run health ministry. Israeli officials have said they are targeting Hamas operatives and infrastructure. The response by Israeli ground troops, now underway by degrees, will bring the next phase of the fight – including the fight for the tunnels.

The Biden administration has sent some of its most seasoned insurgency experts from the war in Iraq and against the Islamic state to advise the Israelis, including three-star Marine Corps Gen. James Glynn, who commanded troops in Fallujah during the Iraq War. In the second battle for Fallujah in November 2004, more than 10,000 U.S. troops went house-to-house clearing the city of 3,000 insurgents in what became the bloodiest battle of the war. Nearly 100 U.S. troops and 2,000 insurgents were killed.

The fight in Gaza may bear some similarities to operations in Fallujah, or in Mosul, where U.S.-backed Iraqi forces flushed Islamic state fighters out of a tunnel network in 2014.

But in Gaza, Israeli forces face more formidable infrastructure and more challenging geography.

Hamas’ tunnel system is more advanced, and its fighters are better trained, more disciplined and better equipped than the Islamic state fighters, said Eitan Shamir, director of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies at Bar-Ilan University in Tel Aviv, Israel.

“It’s a major challenge,” Shamir said. “This is a very messy affair.”

And in Gaza – hemmed in by Israel, Egypt and the Mediterranean Sea, which gives civilians nowhere to flee – a ground war is uniquely challenging, said Seth Jones, a military analyst at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies.

“The intricate nature of the tunnel complex in a densely packed urban environment that is entirely fenced in makes this a fundamentally different – and in many ways more difficult – environment than what U.S. forces had to face in cities like Fallujah or Mosul,” he said. “The possibility of civilian casualties is much greater in Gaza.”

More: Why a Gaza ground invasion will be bloody, fraught and expensive

Building tunnels for a decade
A picture taken on May 6, 2016, from the Israeli side along the border between Israel and the Gaza Strip shows the exit of an alleged offensive tunnel leading into Israel.
A picture taken on May 6, 2016, from the Israeli side along the border between Israel and the Gaza Strip shows the exit of an alleged offensive tunnel leading into Israel.

Palestinians have excavated tunnels under Gaza for decades, initially mostly to smuggle people and goods between Gaza and Egypt, according to testimony to the United Nations by Israeli researcher Eado Hecht. Israel and Egypt have tightly controlled their borders to Gaza, creating a virtual blockade on the territory.

In time, three types of tunnels emerged, according to Hecht: In addition to tunnels into Egypt in the south, there are tunnels that cross the border of Gaza into Israel and tunnels that crisscross under Gaza and can be used as command posts, storage facilities and positions to launch mortars or rockets.

The tunnels have become so elaborate and extensive – Hamas leaders claimed in 2021 they stretched for 311 miles, or nearly half the length of the New York City subway system – that the Israeli military dubbed it the “Gaza Metro,” according to a report this month by the Congressional Research Service. Experts believe some tunnels drop as far as 200 feet – roughly the equivalent of a 20-story building, or a typical airport control tower, underground.

Since at least 2014, the Israeli military has accused Hamas of diverting construction supplies meant for civilian aid into tunnel-building instead.

Over the years, the U.S. has lent its expertise – and money – to help Israel locate and destroy the tunnels and develop technologies to combat them. Since 2016, Congress has appropriated $320 million in Defense Department funding for U.S.-Israel collaboration on “detecting, mapping and neutralizing underground tunnels” in response to the cross-border tunnels built by Hamas, according to the CRS report. In 2021, crews completed an underground concrete barrier with anti-tunnel sensors along the entire 40-mile Israel-Gaza border.

The tunnels have fueled Israeli-Hamas violence before. In 2006, Hamas operatives used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack on Israeli forces and kidnap one of its soldiers, Gilad Shalit, who was held captive for five years before being traded for more than 1,000 prisoners in Israeli jails.

The 2014 conflict between Israel and Hamas led to the discovery of 36 cross-border tunnels, most of which were destroyed, Hecht said.

An Israeli army officer gives journalists a tour of a tunnel allegedly used by Palestinian militants for cross-border attacks at the Israel-Gaza border, in this file photo from 2014.
An Israeli army officer gives journalists a tour of a tunnel allegedly used by Palestinian militants for cross-border attacks at the Israel-Gaza border, in this file photo from 2014.

This time, a key challenge will be finding and rescuing the more than 200 hostages held by Hamas, including 12 Americans.

Yocheved Lifshitz, 85, a hostage taken in the Oct. 7 raid and released by Hamas last week, described to reporters how she was taken through a “huge network” of underground tunnels that looked like a “spiderweb.”

She said hostages were made to walk for two to three hours in the tunnels, gathered and ate in a large hall and slept on mattresses in different rooms. “They told us they believe in the Quran and would not harm us,” she said. “They would give us the same conditions as they have in the tunnels.”

Graphics: As Israel preps for ground invasion, a look at the labyrinth of tunnels in Gaza

Remote-control robots and ‘weasel’ special forces

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Saturday that the military has opened a “second stage” in the war against Hamas by sending ground forces into Gaza and expanding attacks from the ground, air and sea.

Among the ground troops in the next phase of the war, experts told USA TODAY, will be specialized units trained to enter, clear and destroy the tunnels.

Israeli troops gather near the border with Gaza before entering on Oct. 29, 2023.
Israeli troops gather near the border with Gaza before entering on Oct. 29, 2023.

Since the 2014 Israeli-Hamas conflict, Israel has been gathering intelligence and training troops on how to find and destroy the passageways, said Shamir of Bar-Ilan University. At the center of the effort is a highly secretive laboratory – known simply as “the lab” – where scientists from different fields meet to try to learn tunnel locations and dream up technologies that could penetrate them.

Remote-controlled robots have been developed to enter and search the tunnels. Israeli engineers also have developed technology that uses acoustic or seismic sensors and software to detect digging, similar to the science used by oil and gas companies to detect oil reserves, according to the Congressional Research Service.

Because some tunnels are so deep and are concrete-lined, they can survive heavy bombing, Shamir said. Hamas fighters are thought to have enough provisions to live several months in the subterranean labyrinth, he said.

As Israeli forces rumble into the dense urban quarters of Gaza City, Hamas fighters will use the tunnels to launch surprise attacks on Israeli troops, then melt away underground again and pop up in another location, Shamir said. They’ll also use snipers, improvised explosive devices – or IEDs – and bomb-dropping drones.

Shamir said he believed Israel’s initial incursion into Gaza is more of a tactic to try to pressure Hamas into a negotiated release of the prisoners. As the military moves into denser urban areas and begins destroying tunnels, it becomes exponentially harder to rescue them, he said.

“Everyone understands the chances then are small,” Shamir said.

A black cloud of smoke rises from the Gaza Strip amid the ongoing battles between Israel and the Palestinian group Hamas, seen from the Israeli border with Gaza on Oct. 29, 2023.
A black cloud of smoke rises from the Gaza Strip amid the ongoing battles between Israel and the Palestinian group Hamas, seen from the Israeli border with Gaza on Oct. 29, 2023.

The task of neutralizing the tunnel advantage will fall to the Yahalom, the special forces unit of the Combat Engineering Corps, who have been training in tunnel combat. A subunit of the Yahalom, the Samur, or “weasel” operators, will enter the tunnels and try to disarm or destroy the passages and look for hostages.

In recent years, the Israeli military has doubled the number of soldiers in Yahalom, expanding its focus to include subterranean fighting, according to the Israel Defense Forces website.

“The main challenge of underground warfare is that the enemy has no above-ground signature,” the website quotes a Yahalom commander as saying. “The fact that the enemy is hidden and collecting intelligence is complicated and difficult.”

Though Israeli forces may not know the precise entrance of every tunnel, they’ve been monitoring for years where cement-mixing trucks in Gaza have been deployed to give them an idea, Edward Luttwak, an Israeli strategist and historian, wrote in an essay this month.

Israeli tunnel specialists will be ferried by 70-ton Namer infantry combat vehicles, considered some of the most heavily armored vehicles in the world, he wrote. As they reach suspected tunnel sites, several Namers will form a perimeter – “an improvised fortress” – protecting the combat engineers.

“In 2014, the last time Israeli troops fought in Gaza, most were riding thinly armored M.113s, which were easily penetrated by RPG anti-tank rockets, with some 60 soldiers killed and hundreds wounded,” Luttwak wrote. “Not this time.”

Schwartz, who coordinated training with Israeli and Palestinian Authority security forces, witnessed some of the tunnel training in Israel. The Israeli military re-created what they believe the Gazan tunnels look like and sent soldiers through the maze to test weaponry and tactics, as well as unmanned vehicles and robotics.

“They know what they’re going to experience,” Schwartz said. “But the magnitude of what they’re going to deal with compared with what they’ve done in the past is very different.”